1. Elgin Baylor - 173.6
Position: Forward
Height: 6'5"
Draft: 1958 - 1st pick
Experience: 4 years
Teams: Minneapolis Lakers - 1959-1960 (#22), Los Angeles Lakers - 1961-1962 (#22)
44.0 Win Shares, 0.824 MVP Award Shares, 4 All-NBA 1st Team Selections, 0 All-NBA 2nd Team Selections, 4 All-Star Selections, 0 Championships, 0.0 Championship Win Shares, 2 Finals Losses (1959 Lakers, 1962 Lakers), 3.3 Finals Win Shares, 2 Conference Finals Losses (1960 Lakers, 1961 Lakers), 5.0 Conference Finals Win Shares
2. Wilt Chamberlain - 164.3
Position: Center
Height: 7'1"
Draft: 1959 - territorial selection
Experience: 3 years
Teams: Philadelphia Warriors - 1959-1962 (#13)
58.9 Win Shares, 1.294 MVP Award Shares (1 MVP - 1960), 3 All-NBA 1st Team Selections, 0 All-NBA 2nd Team Selections, 3 All-Star Selections, 0 Championships, 0.0 Championship Win Shares, 0 Finals Losses, 0.0 Finals Win Shares, 2 Conference Finals Losses (1960 Warriors, 1962 Warriors), 5.2 Conference Finals Win Shares
So, yeah, even if these guys had never played another game in their lives, Baylor would currently rank as the 87th greatest player ever, and Wilt would be 92nd. Impressive starts indeed.
And the rest of the top ten:
3. Cliff Hagan - 150.7
Position: Forward-Guard
Height: 6'4"
Draft: 1953 - 3rd round
Experience: 6 years
Teams: St. Louis Hawks - 1957-1962 (#6 - 1957, #17 - 1957, #16 - 1958-1962)
54.1 Win Shares, 0.043 MVP Award Shares, 0 All-NBA 1st Team Selections, 2 All-NBA 2nd Team Selections, 5 All-Star Selections, 1 Championship (1958 Hawks), 2.7 Championship Win Shares, 3 Finals Losses (1957 Hawks, 1960 Hawks, 1961 Hawks), 3.9 Finals Win Shares, 1 Conference Finals Loss (1959 Hawks), 1.6 Conference Finals Win Shares
4. George Yardley - 145.1
Position: Forward-Guard
Height: 6'5"
Draft: 1950 - 7th pick
Experience: 7 years (retired 2 years)
Teams: Fort Wayne Pistons - 1954-1957 (#12), Detroit Pistons - 1958-1959 (#12), Syracuse Nationals - 1959-1960 (#12)
58.5 Win Shares, 0.382 MVP Award Shares, 1 All-NBA 1st Team Selection, 1 All-NBA 2nd Team Selection, 6 All-Star Selections, 0 Championships, 0.0 Championship Win Shares, 2 Finals Losses (1955 Pistons, 1956 Pistons), 3.3 Finals Win Shares, 2 Conference Finals Losses (1958 Pistons, 1959 Nationals), 2.2 Conference Finals Win Shares
5. Tom Heinsohn - 140.0
Position: Forward-Center
Height: 6'7"
Draft: 1956 - territorial selection
Experience: 6 years
Teams: Boston Celtics - 1957-1962 (#15)
43.2 Win Shares, 0.053 MVP Award Shares, 0 All-NBA 1st Team Selections, 2 All-NBA 2nd Team Selections, 3 All-Star Selections, 5 Championships (1957 Celtics, 1959 Celtics, 1960 Celtics, 1961 Celtics, 1962 Celtics), 5.6 Championship Win Shares, 1 Finals Loss (1958 Celtics), 0.9 Finals Win Shares, 0 Conference Finals Losses, 0.0 Conference Finals Win Shares
6. Harry Gallatin - 131.9
Position: Forward-Center
Height: 6'6"
Experience: 10 years (retired 4 years)
Teams: New York Knicks - 1949-1957 (#11), Detroit Pistons - 1958 (#10)
60.1 Win Shares, 0.012 MVP Award Shares, 1 All-NBA 1st Team Selection, 1 All-NBA 2nd Team Selection, 7 All-Star Selections, 0 Championships, 0.0 Championship Win Shares, 3 Finals Losses (1951 Knicks, 1952 Knicks, 1953 Knicks), 2.2 Finals Win Shares, 3 Conference Finals Losses (1949 Knicks, 1950 Knicks, 1958 Pistons), 0.2 Conference Finals Win Shares
7. Jim Pollard - 126.0
Position: Forward-Center
Height: 6'4"
Experience: 7 years (retired 7 years)
Teams: Minneapolis Lakers - 1949-1955 (#17)
18.2 Win Shares, 0.000 MVP Award Shares, 2 All-NBA 1st Team Selections, 2 All-NBA 2nd Team Selections, 4 All-Star Selections, 5 Championships (1949 Lakers, 1950 Lakers, 1952 Lakers, 1953 Lakers, 1954 Lakers), 3.7 Championship Win Shares, 0 Finals Losses, 0.0 Finals Win Shares, 2 Conference Finals Losses (1951 Lakers, 1955 Lakers), 0.3 Conference Finals Win Shares
8. Clyde Lovellette - 120.8
Position: Center-Forward
Height: 6'9"
Draft: 1952 - 9th pick
Experience: 9 years
Teams: Minneapolis Lakers - 1954-1957 (#89 - 1954, #34 - 1954-1957), Cincinnati Royals - 1958 (#34), St. Louis Hawks - 1959-1962 (#34)
67.7 Win Shares, 0.013 MVP Award Shares, 0 All-NBA 1st Team Selections, 1 All-NBA 2nd Team Selection, 4 All-Star Selections, 1 Championship (1954 Lakers), 1.3 Championship Win Shares, 2 Finals Losses (1960 Hawks, 1961 Hawks), 0.9 Finals Win Shares, 3 Conference Finals Losses (1955 Lakers, 1957 Lakers, 1959 Hawks), 2.1 Conference Finals Win Shares
9. Bob Davies - 118.5
Position: Guard-Forward
Height: 6'1"
Experience: 7 years (retired 7 years)
Teams: Rochester Royals - 1949-1955 (#11)
26.5 Win Shares, 0.000 MVP Award Shares, 4 All-NBA 1st Team Selections, 1 All-NBA 2nd Team Selection, 4 All-Star Selections, 1 Championship (1951 Royals), 0.0 Championship Win Shares, 0 Finals Losses, 0.0 Finals Win Shares, 3 Conference Finals Losses (1949 Royals, 1952 Royals, 1954 Royals), 0.8 Conference Finals Win Shares
10. Jack Twyman - 104.5
Position: Forward-Guard
Height: 6'6"
Draft: 1955 - 8th pick
Experience: 7 years
Teams: Rochester Royals - 1956-1957 (#10), Cincinnati Royals - 1958-1962 (#27 - 1958-1960, #31 - 1961-1962)
57.8 Win Shares, 0.066 MVP Award Shares, 0 All-NBA 1st Team Selections, 2 All-NBA 2nd Team Selections, 5 All-Star Selections, 0 Championships, 0.0 Championship Win Shares, 0 Finals Losses, 0.0 Finals Win Shares, 0 Conference Finals Losses, 0.0 Conference Finals Win Shares
And the 16 Greatest Players Ever through 16 years:
Inducted members in bold; Retired players highlighted in silver
(Previous rank and rating, if applicable, in parentheses)
1. Dolph Schayes - 385.8 (1 - 377.7)
2. Bob Cousy - 378.6 (2 - 349.1)3. Bob Pettit - 361.0 (3 - 327.7)
4. Bill Russell - 350.0 (5 - 260.4)
5. Bill Sharman - 276.2 (4)
6. Paul Arizin - 244.5 (7)
7. George Mikan - 232.2 (6)
8. Neil Johnston - 209.8 (8)
9. Vern Mikkelsen - 190.5 (9)
10. Ed Macauley - 179.7 (10)
11. Elgin Baylor - 173.6 (16 - 130.4)
12. Wilt Chamberlain - 164.3 (21 - 104.5)
13. Slater Martin - 160.6 (11)
14. Larry Foust - 155.6 (12 - 152.4)
15. Cliff Hagan - 150.7 (14 - 137.2)
16. George Yardley - 145.1 (13)
And the next tier:
17. Tom Heinsohn - 140.0 (20 - 105.7)
18. Harry Gallatin - 131.9 (15)
19. Jim Pollard - 126.0 (17)
20. Clyde Lovellette - 120.8 (19 - 117.2)
21. Bob Davies - 118.5 (18)
22. Jack Twyman - 104.5 (28 - 80.9)
23. Bobby Wanzer - 99.5 (22)
24. Dick McGuire - 98.2 (23)
25. Richie Guerin - 94.3 (NR - 66.9)
26. Gene Shue - 92.9 (27 - 81.3)
27. Carl Braun - 92.6 (24 - 92.1)
28. Andy Phillip - 85.5 (25)
29. Larry Costello - 84.2 (30 - 73.3)
30. Paul Seymour - 82.9 (26)
31. Tom Gola - 82.4* (NR - 72.7)
32. Oscar Robertson - 81.4* (NR - 37.9)
Looks like Gallatin won't make it know. Amazing how quick Baylor and Chamberlain entered the List. I also noticed Oscar entered the list at the bottom of the 2nd tier...We'll see how long it is before he's inducted...
ReplyDeleteGallatin's an interesting case, because he probably suffers the most from the fact that basketball-reference doesn't have any Win Share data prior to 1952. So he basically gets no credit for his first three seasons - just looking at his numbers compared to his other seasons, he'd probably have another 20-25 points in regular season Win Shares, and maybe another 10 points in playoff Win Shares. (He also didn't get much love from the All-NBA voters during those years either, which is how most of the really early guys stacked up points.)
ReplyDeleteSo, Gallatin's actual rating should probably be about 160, but it's impossible to speculate how he'd stack up if everyone else got full Win Shares credit for those years too. I tried a couple different formulas to estimate it for those first few years but couldn't come up with anything satisfactory, so I just had to leave it for now and hope basketball-reference finds a way to incorporate those numbers eventually. Of course, then I'll have to redo the list and the rankings, but I'll gladly do it once they figure it out.
And it would have helped if the Knicks could have stolen ONE championship from the Lakers in the early 50s. I mean, they COULD have, maybe ONE. Of course, Mikan was just that good back then.
ReplyDelete